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Post by DarknessLink7 on Dec 8, 2015 14:31:54 GMT -5
I figured it would be cool to share our thoughts on the story up to a certain point somewhere. I love to read what people think.
Keep in mind, no spoilers for anything other than chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.
Anyway, to kick things off; Here are the main mysteries so far in my opinion:
1. Why did the alien races battle two years ago? 2. Who was the mysterious defender of the White Whale? 3. Why are the Ganglion so passionate about killing humans? 4. Who is Goetia and what is her motivation? Answer: A Ganglion working for Luxaar, intent on exterminating all humans. 5. Why does the number on the BLADE tower decrease? Answer: To signify the amount of mim fuel left. 6. How are the humans able to understand the languages? 7. What is the Great One that Luxaar is talking about? 8. What is the giant black Mech that we found? Answer: The vessel of The Great One called the Vita. 9. What was that thing than Vandham wanted to bring up about Elma in the hangar? 10. Why did the huge flying monster save us from the Tainted? 11. What's up with Lao? Answer: He sided with the ganglion since he detested the whole project. 12. Why are the Ganglion afraid of our real bodies? 13. Where the heck IS the lifehold?
Do you have any cool questions or ponderings so far?
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Post by heroponriki on Dec 22, 2015 20:06:49 GMT -5
Damn it, I really wanted to believe you weren't a traitor Lao! I'm glad they went the route of trying to redeem him rather than killing him though! Very well-done and emotional cutscene. The boss battle was a joke of course since I was level 55 and had an OP skell. He had some sort of invincibility gimmick going on that I couldn't quite figure out, but I brute forced my way through that anyway thanks to the fact that he couldn't do crap to me. Oh, and it was also pretty funny that it took place in the obvious dungeon and boss chamber I posted about in the gameplay experiences thread.
I'm really tempted to do the final chapter now, but I know it will be much more satisfying if I finish up all these quest chains and affinity missions first. At least there's the story excuse that they're still analyzing the data, even though gameplay wise I know I can take the story mission at any point.
On another note, I'm really curious who the final boss is going to be. The obvious answers would be Luxaar or "The Great One" he is trying to summon, but I've seen people talk about how the final boss is a major spoiler so that seems to suggest it's someone we aren't expecting. There might be another traitor within NLA that reveals themselves at the end such as Chausson, or maybe it's God or Satan or something with this being a xeno game. My money's still on Tatsu though.
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Post by DarknessLink7 on Dec 22, 2015 22:54:49 GMT -5
Damn it, I really wanted to believe you weren't a traitor Lao! I'm glad they went the route of trying to redeem him rather than killing him though! Very well-done and emotional cutscene. The boss battle was a joke of course since I was level 55 and had an OP skell. He had some sort of invincibility gimmick going on that I couldn't quite figure out, but I brute forced my way through that anyway thanks to the fact that he couldn't do crap to me. Oh, and it was also pretty funny that it took place in the obvious dungeon and boss chamber I posted about in the gameplay experiences thread. I'm really tempted to do the final chapter now, but I know it will be much more satisfying if I finish up all these quest chains and affinity missions first. At least there's the story excuse that they're still analyzing the data, even though gameplay wise I know I can take the story mission at any point. On another note, I'm really curious who the final boss is going to be. The obvious answers would be Luxaar or "The Great One" he is trying to summon, but I've seen people talk about how the final boss is a major spoiler so that seems to suggest it's someone we aren't expecting. There might be another traitor within NLA that reveals themselves at the end such as Chausson, or maybe it's God or Satan or something with this being a xeno game. My money's still on Tatsu though. Man, oh man... I just finished this chapter too, and this was a very emotional one. Funny how we always seem to progress at roughly the same pace. The revelation about how only the rich and powerful were allowed on board was sad too. I didn't quite understand what Lao meant though, since he said "We're already dead", but later "They only wanted us due to our skills". Are we alive or dead? XD He made it sound as if the majority of us are just mimeosomes with no remaining actual bodies, while only a chosen few are alive in the lifehold core. But then he talks as if we possesed special skills and were thus allowed inside the lifehold core anyway, which would mean we ARE alive. O.o Also, his final monologue was sooo good. I feel sorry for you, Lao. :, ( I'll add a new mystery to the original post: 14. What did Lao mean when he said we're already dead? It might just be me being confused, but there seems to be more to this than what we learned in this chapter. PS. How the heck are they gonna wrap this up? So many unsolved mysteries!
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Post by heroponriki on Dec 22, 2015 23:34:49 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Lao meant people are already dead as in humanity is screwed up now and what it once was is dead, I don't think that was supposed to be taken literally.
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Post by DarknessLink7 on Dec 23, 2015 0:02:25 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Lao meant people are already dead as in humanity is screwed up now and what it once was is dead, I don't think that was supposed to be taken literally. Ooh, yeah, that makes sense. It was kinda contradictory. I mean, we all control our mimeosomes fro the lifehold core in the first place.
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Post by ancientrune on Dec 23, 2015 3:12:13 GMT -5
i highly suggest just going ahead and beating the main story as it will make grinding for affinity much easier and i dont think it hurts the side and affinity quests that much
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Post by DarknessLink7 on Dec 23, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -5
Is that so, ancientrune? I kinda want to finish most missions before beating the game though... It feels like the ending would have a bigger impact then.
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Post by ancientrune on Dec 23, 2015 14:07:25 GMT -5
Is that so, ancientrune? I kinda want to finish most missions before beating the game though... It feels like the ending would have a bigger impact then. its fine if you do, i was going too until i realized just how long it would take me to raise affinty for 18 characters, id estimate about a 1000 soul voices to max everyone instead of 50 support missions
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Post by heroponriki on Dec 23, 2015 18:57:34 GMT -5
I've been switching characters constantly throughout the course of the playthrough, so most of them are already close to being at 4 hearts. For the ones that aren't I'll just do them after beating the story, but it doesn't hurt to do everything that's available already.
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Post by Primulus on Dec 23, 2015 19:05:00 GMT -5
Is that so, ancientrune? I kinda want to finish most missions before beating the game though... It feels like the ending would have a bigger impact then. There's 6 affinity missions and 18 normal missions that are only available after chapter 12, so chapter 12 is best played "when it feels appropriate to" rather than "wait until everything else is done" because you still got a ways to go after. (Not to mention the hardest grinding happens in the postgame, if you see fit to 100% the map segments across the entire world.) My advice would actually be saving the affinity mission "Lion-hearted" for one of the last things you do (it has one normal mission after it, though). It's one of the six affinity missions after chapter 12, and I feel like it is the best "epilogue" to the overall story.
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Post by heroponriki on Dec 23, 2015 20:55:01 GMT -5
Is that so, ancientrune? I kinda want to finish most missions before beating the game though... It feels like the ending would have a bigger impact then. There's 6 affinity missions and 18 normal missions that are only available after chapter 12, so chapter 12 is best played "when it feels appropriate to" rather than "wait until everything else is done" because you still got a ways to go after. (Not to mention the hardest grinding happens in the postgame, if you see fit to 100% the map segments across the entire world.) My advice would actually be saving the affinity mission "Lion-hearted" for one of the last things you do (it has one normal mission after it, though). It's one of the six affinity missions after chapter 12, and I feel like it is the best "epilogue" to the overall story. Noted. I don't think I'm going to bother with 100% as far as killing every tyrant, finding every treasure and all that is concerned. I think I'm going to aim to complete every affinity mission and all of the interesting normal missions and leave it at that. Once I've seen the full plot and explored every area in the game it feels kind of pointless to keep playing, but I'll likely start a second file at some point.
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Post by Max Galactica on Apr 1, 2016 2:05:11 GMT -5
I have this going as I type, for maximum emotional effect: Wow. Just wow. What an amazing chapter. I could leave it at that, and my thoughts would be sufficiently encapsulated. But I'll go into more details. I honestly expected the first half of KAKU-WEST*→▲★★KAI to play in a more epic type of scene, not what it ended up being used for. Oh well, it's still a fantastic song on its own. Lao's reveal was kind of anticlimactic, to be honest. But I suppose that's to be expected, given how obvious the game made that truth known in the previous chapters. Once we got to Cauldros is when I felt the chapter got good. I pretty much ran through the whole fortress without aggroing anything (except for some pesky Tyrants that aggro no matter how high you're level is). Then I returned to that obvious boss stage that I found a while ago, and had the emotional encounter with Lao. As far as music goes (cuz that's CLEARLY the most important thing about this game), D91M was executed very well. RE:ARR.X (the first half) was used excellently as well, although it didn't play for nearly as long as I would've like it to. But the obvious standout is the first half of aBOreSSs. That song shot up to my top 10 tracks of the soundtrack after I heard that song in context. Which leads me to my major complaint about this chapter: They made the battle voices too loud and the music too quiet during that battle. I wanted to listen to the song, but Elma and Lin kept up with their screaming to drown out the music. So what did I do? I let Lao kill them. THEN I was able to truly enjoy the music as I soloed him on-foot without using Overdrive. It was a long battle, and I got pretty close to dying on a number of occasions (that's what Jetstream and Astral Protection are for!), but I ended up defeating him. The scenes in-between and after the battle were the first time that I honestly felt emotionally attached to the characters and plot in this game. Lao's reasons for doing what he's doing were really touching and completely understandable. His tale is truly a tragic one. The interesting thing about what he said, is that that would probably be true in the real world, if such circumstances were to arise. Only the rich and the valuable would be allowed to live, leaving the rest to die. It shows how corrupt humanity really is, both in XCX and in real life. A side note: I really do not understand the Tatsu hate that I've seen everywhere. I love him to death, and after the lunchbox scene, he's pretty much surpassed Riki in my books. I really don't see what there is to hate about him. So overall, this was easily the best chapter plot-wise. Maybe not the best boss in the game, but this was the first chapter that I actually felt emotionally invested in. I can't wait to get what I'm assuming is going to be an information dump to wrap up the story in chapter 12. By the way, what was the criticism about this chapter that you mentioned a few days ago, Primulus?
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Post by Primulus on Apr 1, 2016 2:23:55 GMT -5
By the way, what was the criticism about this chapter that you mentioned a few days ago, Primulus ? A large number of people were angry that the avatar character takes Lin's side automatically and spares Lao. There's a sizeable portion of people on GameFAQs that absolutely hate Lao (as well as Lin). The common complaint is that the game shouldn't have taken away the player's choice in such a large moment, with some accusing Lin of being a Mary Sue because of it. I disagree with these notions, largely, because sparing Lao from Elma's gun is a pretty logical choice all around, and one doesn't need to be forgiving Lao or taking Lin's side to see it. (I'm also quite happy with it makes the avatar character moderately important to what's going on.) Otherwise, many astute observations!
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Post by Max Galactica on Apr 1, 2016 2:34:20 GMT -5
By the way, what was the criticism about this chapter that you mentioned a few days ago, Primulus ? A large number of people were angry that the avatar character takes Lin's side automatically and spares Lao. There's a sizeable portion of people on GameFAQs that absolutely hate Lao (as well as Lin). The common complaint is that the game shouldn't have taken away the player's choice in such a large moment, with some accusing Lin of being a Mary Sue because of it. I disagree with these notions, largely, because sparing Lao from Elma's gun is a pretty logical choice all around, and one doesn't need to be forgiving Lao or taking Lin's side to see it. (I'm also quite happy with it makes the avatar character moderately important to what's going on.) Otherwise, many astute observations! Wait, people hate Lao? That's a first. I feel like what they did there was perfect. I honestly don't see anything wrong with what Lin or Cross did. They understood that Lao wasn't an evil maniac like Luxaar and did whatever they could to save him. He's just a normal man who went a little nuts because of his anger at the government for killing his family, and Lin understood that it was possible to talk reason into him. The complainers' logic seems flawed to me.
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Post by ancientrune on Apr 1, 2016 2:35:23 GMT -5
Yea the people who think that are missing the point entirely, this chapter is about Laos disagreement with how the Exodus project was handled and some of the things he say are things that I'd rather not say at this moment.
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Post by DarknessLink7 on Apr 1, 2016 5:57:56 GMT -5
I'm so glad you liked this chapter! The scene with Lao after the others have left where he talks to his wife and daughter tore at my heartstrings... Granted, he did lead his team into a trap and endangered the whole of NLA, but still...
And Tatsu is great! The lunchbox scene was great, and really showed that he cares about Lin. Other than that, I also enjoyed the dungeon leading up to Lao, and I wish more chapters had indoors locations like that.
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Post by flameheadshero on Apr 1, 2016 9:39:45 GMT -5
A large number of people were angry that the avatar character takes Lin's side automatically and spares Lao. There's a sizeable portion of people on GameFAQs that absolutely hate Lao (as well as Lin). The common complaint is that the game shouldn't have taken away the player's choice in such a large moment, with some accusing Lin of being a Mary Sue because of it. I disagree with these notions, largely, because sparing Lao from Elma's gun is a pretty logical choice all around, and one doesn't need to be forgiving Lao or taking Lin's side to see it. (I'm also quite happy with it makes the avatar character moderately important to what's going on.) Otherwise, many astute observations! Wait, people hate Lao? That's a first. I feel like what they did there was perfect. I honestly don't see anything wrong with what Lin or Cross did. They understood that Lao wasn't an evil maniac like Luxaar and did whatever they could to save him. He's just a normal man who went a little nuts because of his anger at the government for killing his family, and Lin understood that it was possible to talk reason into him. The complainers' logic seems flawed to me. I guess I'll explain my thoughts on it as someone that didn't like how the scene played out. I don't like Lao. I was not a fan of his personality or that he took out is problems on everyone else. Throughout the game he had already betrayed us more than once and tried to get us killed. He even got his teammates who looked up to him killed. While I understood his anguish, I think his anger was misdirected and he ended up hurting people that didn't deserve it. People that were suffering just like he was. Now this is why I have an issue with that scene. Throughout the game, your avatar is given choices. You aren't able to have critical influence on the direction of the story but you do at least get to give your avatar a bit of their own character through dialogue and reactions and it makes you feel like you have agency over your character. Which is as it should be; your character is meant to be you. When we get this scene, suddenly none of that matters. It felt as if the writers had reached in and took control of my character. It took me out of it; now that's just Cross. Not me. And from your use of language, Max, it seems like you see Cross as their own character and not you. I see "Cross" as me which is why the scene bothered me. Personally, I think that's wasted potential of an avatar character and if they're going to do that, they should just make them an establish character. Now am I saying you should be able to drastically change the tide of the scene and shoot Lao? No. Or should the avatar just sit there and do nothing? No. Instead, how about giving the player a choice? Stand with Elma. Stand with Lin. Notice that in the original scene, your avatar simply stands with Lin against Elma. Lin then gives her speech and Lao surrenders so no one has to get shot. So say the game lets you choose to stand with Elma. You raise your gun along with her to point at Lao and Lin. Lin, instead of Elma, will say "you too?!" Then Lin will still give her speech and Lao will still surrender. The scene plays out exactly the same from that moment on. Your avatar still is taking part in the cutscene but you feel that you have some agency. It would also allow you to give some personality to your avatar - maybe your avatar isn't the type of person who would defend Lao in that situation? It doesn't matter if it isn't logical. Elma wasn't being logical. You should be able to be as flawed as her in that moment if you so choose. It was just very jarring to me because my character ended up doing something I wouldn't do. Especially since during the mission briefing prior, I told Elma that we should've shot Lao while he was stealing the Prog Ares. If you like Lao and would've defended him anyway, I can see why you'd have no problem with the scene but think of it from the perspective of someone who doesn't and wouldn't. Everything else about the scene was great, I don't really get the whole "mary sue" crap, but that one moment with the avatar really didn't work for me personally. I hope you understand what I'm getting at.
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Post by Max Galactica on Apr 1, 2016 9:58:51 GMT -5
I guess I'll explain my thoughts on it as someone that didn't like how the scene played out. I don't like Lao. I was not a fan of his personality or that he took out is problems on everyone else. Throughout the game he had already betrayed us more than once and tried to get us killed. He even got his teammates who looked up to him killed. While I understood his anguish, I think his anger was misdirected and he ended up hurting people that didn't deserve it. People that were suffering just like he was. Now this is why I have an issue with that scene. Throughout the game, your avatar is given choices. You aren't able to have critical influence on the direction of the story but you do at least get to give your avatar a bit of their own character through dialogue and reactions and it makes you feel like you have agency over your character. Which is as it should be; your character is meant to be you. When we get this scene, suddenly none of that matters. It felt as if the writers had reached in and took control of my character. It took me out of it; now that's just Cross. Not me. And from your use of language, Max, it seems like you see Cross as their own character and not you. I see "Cross" as me which is why the scene bothered me. Personally, I think that's wasted potential of an avatar character and if they're going to do that, they should just make them an establish character. Now am I saying you should be able to drastically change the tide of the scene and shoot Lao? No. Or should the avatar just sit there and do nothing? No. Instead, how about giving the player a choice? Stand with Elma. Stand with Lin. Notice that in the original scene, your avatar simply stands with Lin against Elma. Lin then gives her speech and Lao surrenders so no one has to get shot. So say the game lets you choose to stand with Elma. You raise your gun along with her to point at Lao and Lin. Lin, instead of Elma, will say "you too?!" Then Lin will still give her speech and Lao will still surrender. The scene plays out exactly the same from that moment on. Your avatar still is taking part in the cutscene but you feel that you have some agency. It would also allow you to give some personality to your avatar - maybe your avatar isn't the type of person who would defend Lao in that situation? It doesn't matter if it isn't logical. Elma wasn't being logical. You should be able to be as flawed as her in that moment if you so choose. It was just very jarring to me because my character ended up doing something I wouldn't do. Especially since during the mission briefing prior, I told Elma that we should've shot Lao while he was stealing the Prog Ares. If you like Lao and would've defended him anyway, I can see why you'd have no problem with the scene but think of it from the perspective of someone who doesn't and wouldn't. Everything else about the scene was great, I don't really get the whole "mary sue" crap, but that one moment with the avatar really didn't work for me personally. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. So you don't like Lao because he made wrong decisions? I think that makes him more human, and much more believable as a character. Even though he went overboard with his anger and killed a lot of innocent people, his reasons seem understandable. Not that I'm defending killing innocent people, obviously that's wrong. But doing what he did makes him a more real and developed character than he would've been had he not done what he did. I do get where you come from with the Cross decision. However, I feel like Elma would've shot Lao had we chosen to stand by Elma (I didn't pick to shoot Lao in the early choice, by the way). Your influence would've encouraged her, and she would've done it. I'm assuming Lao will play a major role in chapter 12, so that wouldn't have gone well for the rest of the story. I feel like restricting your choice was necessary to prevent the rest of the story from being destroyed by killing Lao. There might've been a way around it even with you choosing to stand by Elma, but I feel like it would've had to be a case of deus ex machina in order to pull that off, which is never good.
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Post by flameheadshero on Apr 1, 2016 11:23:07 GMT -5
So you don't like Lao because he made wrong decisions? I think that makes him more human, and much more believable as a character. Even though he went overboard with his anger and killed a lot of innocent people, his reasons seem understandable. Not that I'm defending killing innocent people, obviously that's wrong. But doing what he did makes him a more real and developed character than he would've been had he not done what he did. I do get where you come from with the Cross decision. However, I feel like Elma would've shot Lao had we chosen to stand by Elma (I didn't pick to shoot Lao in the early choice, by the way). Your influence would've encouraged her, and she would've done it. I'm assuming Lao will play a major role in chapter 12, so that wouldn't have gone well for the rest of the story. I feel like restricting your choice was necessary to prevent the rest of the story from being destroyed by killing Lao. There might've been a way around it even with you choosing to stand by Elma, but I feel like it would've had to be a case of deus ex machina in order to pull that off, which is never good. I should clarify, I don't like Lao as a person. He works as a written character but because I was experiencing the world through my avatar I did not like Lao, the person. This is why I didn't like my avatar suddenly standing up to defend Lao. It was a disconnect between the person I had projected onto my avatar and this new character Cross that had suddenly began acting on his own. I don't think Elma would've shot Lao just because you sided with her. Remember, Lin was standing there. Elma would've had to shoot Lin first and I don't think Elma is the kind of person to do that even with you on her side. Elma would at least hear her out as Elma has shown to try to negotiate before violence throughout the game with even the Ganglion. And if you notice, Elma doesn't put her gun down even when you step up to defend Lao. She's pointing the gun straight at Lin's face the whole time. Your avatar simply stands there behind Lin. Lin then continues her speech and though it seems to elicit an emotional response from Elma, she still does not lower her gun. However, that doesn't matter because at that very moment, Lao gives up - leaving no need for Elma to be convinced. In the end, it's Lao that needs to be convinced to resolve the conflict - not Elma. So I think the scene with your avatar standing with Elma wouldn't need a deus ex machina to work. Simply write it so that you side with Elma but Lao still gives up due to Lin's speech before any gun is fired. LIN: No Elma! Not like this! ELMA: Step aside, Lin! If I can shut down his mim, there's still a good chance we can extract the data afterwards. LIN: No dammit! That's not even the point! We're all on the same side here! *Player selects "Side with Elma." Avatar raises ranged weapon at Lin and Lao. LIN: Not you too... ELMA: Listen to us. Move aside, Lin. I won't ask you again. LIN: Wait! Listen Elma... I understand Lao's anger. I lost my family to an accident a long time ago.... but if someone promised me a chance of saving them and that was all a self-serving lie? I... Who knows what I would do? TATSU: Linly... LIN: It's disturbing and corrupt and disgusting. And yet... that's exactly what makes us human! Maybe... maybe we really should have been wiped out of existence... but... but then... *Elma looks conflicted. Lao smiles and pulls out the data terminal LAO: The data terminal... take it. LIN: What? But Lao- LAO: I'm abandoning my little crusade. I guess I'm just as corrupt as anyone else. *Lao hands the terminal to Lin. Elma and your avatar lower their guns. Scene plays out as it does normally. As you see, I didn't really change the scene that much. But I gave the player some agency in how their character acts and kept the plot intact without changing any of the character's motivations or actions save for your own character which is the whole point.
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Post by Max Galactica on Apr 1, 2016 11:39:25 GMT -5
I should clarify, I don't like Lao as a person. He works as a written character but because I was experiencing the world through my avatar I did not like Lao, the person. This is why I didn't like my avatar suddenly standing up to defend Lao. It was a disconnect between the person I had projected onto my avatar and this new character Cross that had suddenly began acting on his own. I don't think Elma would've shot Lao just because you sided with her. Remember, Lin was standing there. Elma would've had to shoot Lin first and I don't think Elma is the kind of person to do that even with you on her side. Elma would at least hear her out as Elma has shown to try to negotiate before violence throughout the game with even the Ganglion. And if you notice, Elma doesn't put her gun down even when you step up to defend Lao. She's pointing the gun straight at Lin's face the whole time. Your avatar simply stands there behind Lin. Lin then continues her speech and though it seems to elicit an emotional response from Elma, she still does not lower her gun. However, that doesn't matter because at that very moment, Lao gives up - leaving no need for Elma to be convinced. In the end, it's Lao that needs to be convinced to resolve the conflict - not Elma. So I think the scene with your avatar standing with Elma wouldn't need a deus ex machina to work. Simply write it so that you side with Elma but Lao still gives up due to Lin's speech before any gun is fired. LIN: No Elma! Not like this! ELMA: Step aside, Lin! If I can shut down his mim, there's still a good chance we can extract the data afterwards. LIN: No dammit! That's not even the point! We're all on the same side here! *Player selects "Side with Elma." Avatar raises ranged weapon at Lin and Lao. LIN: Not you too... ELMA: Listen to us. Move aside, Lin. I won't ask you again. LIN: Wait! Listen Elma... I understand Lao's anger. I lost my family to an accident a long time ago.... but if someone promised me a chance of saving them and that was all a self-serving lie? I... Who knows what I would do? TATSU: Linly... LIN: It's disturbing and corrupt and disgusting. And yet... that's exactly what makes us human! Maybe... maybe we really should have been wiped out of existence... but... but then... *Elma looks conflicted. Lao smiles and pulls out the data terminal LAO: The data terminal... take it. LIN: What? But Lao- LAO: I'm abandoning my little crusade. I guess I'm just as corrupt as anyone else. *Lao hands the terminal to Lin. Elma and your avatar lower their guns. Scene plays out as it does normally. As you see, I didn't really change the scene that much. But I gave the player some agency in how their character acts and kept the plot intact without changing any of the character's motivations or actions save for your own character which is the whole point. Elma is a lot bigger and stronger than Lin. She could've easily pushed her aside to shoot Lao. And I feel the avatar standing by Elma would've encouraged her to do just that. Of course, none of this can be proven, so we might be at an impasse at this point.
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